Interviews with Leopold Stokowski
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Interviews with Leopold Stokowski

Leopold Stokowski
in 1960s back at
the organ
Interviews with Leopold Stokowski
Leopold Stokowski participated in numerous interviews,
often as part of radio programs, and also occasionally
speeches, of which a variety of recordings survive. In
some ways, these interviews have characteristics in
common with Stokowski's many recordings of great music.
He seems consistently to have sought a particular effect
or impression by what he communicated to the listener.
In this, they seem characteristic of the man, including
that they may not be totally reliable factual accounts
of real events, in those cases that he is speaking of
real events.
Not only are the "facts" in
Stokowski's accounts often changed, seemingly for
effect, but also his opinions and
pronouncement seem (to me at least) often to verge on
the cliché, and without great depth.
Further, in speaking of the great composers and artists
he knew, he often had somewhat uniform descriptions of them,
for example, as all being "simple"
in their personal conduct and outlook,
and in having modest habits. This was seemingly praise
from Stokowski, but describing Richard Strauss, for
example as a "simple" man or Prokofiev as "simple like a
child" would seem to stretch the concept, at least
contrasted with other accounts of these two great
composers.
Much different music was characterized in
the same way, for example, Brahms' Symphony no 1 has
"...a simple, childlike beauty".
The Stokowski
Accent
Also, somewhat irritating to some listeners will be
not only the famous Stokowski accent, but also his
affectation of being a non-English speaking European
searching for the correct English word in a foreign
language. You will hear examples in these
interviews. So too, he would start to use a
foreign term, seemingly by accident, and seem to
catch himself and correct it to English (e.g.
"...in Deutsch..; ahh in Germany...").
In contrast, speaking of his personal investigations
of Asian music, he went "...on the place; ahh 'sur
place'...".
Similarly, he had the habit of referring to international
cities by their foreign names ("Moskva" rather than
Moscow, "Praha" instead of Prague), with some
surprising exceptions (such as "Vienna" rather than
Wein, or "Paris" in an English pronunciation,
rather than "Par-ee" in a French pronunciation. pronunciation).
Also, he often used adaptations of non-English
language terms, such as "Fagottist" in place of
bassoon and addressing the bassoonist as "Fagott"
(the German term or "fagotto" in Italian, or
possibly "fagotte", the French term for bassoon) in
instructing the orchestra. Speaking of "orchestra",
Stokowski usually pronounced orchestra as
"or-KES-tra", with the accent on the second syllable
for at least 60 years. However, there are some
interesting exceptions. In Stokowski's 1927 analysis
of the Brahms Symphony no 1, included as one 78 RPM
side in Victor album M-15, Stokowski says
"OR-kes-tra", with the accent on the first syllable,
as do most English speakers.
Also, when speaking,
Stokowski would frequently drop articles such as
"the" or "a", particularly in public speaking.
And, this method of speaking seems, from
contemporary accounts, to have evolved
principally between his time in Cincinnati and his
arrival in Philadelphia.
Given that he was born and raised in England in an
English speaking household and lived substantially
all of his long life in either England or the United
States (Stokowski became
a naturalized US citizen in 1914), this
affectation is striking. Perhaps more so now
that we look back at Stokowski's remarkable life,
knowing much that had been obscured, often by Stokowski himself, during his
lifetime.
Did
Stokowski Speak Polish?
"...In October, 1977, a year before his own death,
he [Percy, Leopold's younger brother] wrote me:
First about our parents. My father's father was a
Pole.... He later married a Scotch woman named
Anderson. So that my father was half Scotch. There
was no Polish spoken in our home and I do not think
my father knew any Polish..." [Page 6, op. cit.]
Oliver Daniel, who knew Stokowski well over many
years, speculated that, rather than being a false
affectation, Stokowski's evolving speaking habits
were part of Stokowski's continuous search for the
new, and the striking. Daniel says [page 118, op.
cit.] '...To me it was simply pure Stokowski. I
feel that he was playing a role. For Philadelphia,
the scenario had to be rewritten - it had to
accentuate the Slav in him.'
Mystery and Novelty
I share this less censorious view of Stokowski in his
speech and his recounting of his history. This
seems consistent with Stokowski's desire to be both
private, mysterious, and striking. As an example,
in the 1930 US Census, Stokowski claimed to have
been born in France, and that his age was 39
(actually 48). However, all this mystery and
recreation of his identity would seem (to
me) perhaps part of a constant search for the new
and novel. However, unfortunately, these
recreations seem also to have aided those who, then
and now, unfairly tried to characterize Stokowski as
a 'charlatan'.
Should we seek to judge this quest for mystery and novelty ?
Is it not better to concentrate on the music and the musical
performances, the joy, and the insight he has given us through
his sixty years of recording ? What is the importance
of his constant re-creation of himself and his history ?
The music is the important part.
However, this also brings me to the conclusion that the Stokowski
interviews are not a particularly good way to appreciate the
achievements of the man, nor to gain any particular
insight into his career and achievements.
So, sample these interviews 'at your own risk'.
They come from my personal collection in some cases,
and from publicly available sources in others.
1972 BBC Stokowski Fiftieth Anniversary Tribute
In
1972, the BBC made a broadcast billed as a tribute
to the fiftieth anniversary of Stokowski's first
London Symphony Orchestra concert of 1912. The
tribute is a compilation of Stokowski interviews
highlighting the divergences of Stokowski statements
made during interviews, versus the information from
various sources. It makes use of the
discrepancies about his age and origin. The
interview excerpts is contrasted from amusing
musical excerpts from Fantasia (or, as Stokowski
says during one of the interviews, 'fan-ta-SI-a').
When talking about this he speaks about the 'kino
haus', using the German term, then correcting it to
the 'cinema house', again as a non-English speaker.
This tribute is in fact something of a "send-up" of
Stokowski by the BBC, with somewhat arch, indirect
irony. Interesting, but somewhat 'naughty'.
Click here to listen to the
1972 BBC Stokowski Fiftieth Anniversary Tribute
Interviews with Steve Cohen
WUHY Philadelphia
In 1968 in Philadelphia, Steve Cohen produced a series of
programs about Leopold Stokowski, called 'The Stokowski Story',
which were broadcast on radio station WHYY-FM. Steve
Cohen interviewed not only Leopold Stokowski, but also a number
of members of the the Philadelphia Orchestra, the Houston Symphony,
and other Orchestras and musicians. The Philadelphia Orchestra
musicians went back as far as 1919 in their memories. There
were interviews also with acquaintances who knew Stokowski from his
earliest days in Philadelphia, and also in New York.
The first excerpts from the Steve Cohen 'Stokowski
Story' reproduce interviews with Stokowski recorded in
New York City, probably in 1967.
Stokowski provides a series of recollections of great composers whom
he had worked with or had met. First of these was Serge Rachmaninoff
with whom Stokowski made famous recordings of the Rachmaninoff Piano
Concerto no 2, and the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini. Click below
to listen to Stokowski's memories of Serge Rachmaninoff.
Click here to listen to Stokowski's memories of Serge Rachmaninoff
Richard Strauss who conducted the Philadelphia Orchestra in
1921.
Click here to hear Stokowski's memories of Richard Strauss
Stravinsky according to Stokowski.
Click here to hear about Stravinsky according to Stokowski
Sibelius according to Stokowski
Click here to hear Stokowski speaking about Sibelius
Edgar Varèse according to Stokowski
Click here to listen to Stokowski speak about Edgar Varèse
Steve Cohen also had a series of interviews with composers and
musicians about Stokowski performances.
In about 1966, Steve Cohen interviewed the great Armenian-American
composer Alan
Hovhaness (1911-2000) about Stokowski's premiers of several
Hovhaness works, including 'Mysterious Mountain' in Houston
in 1955.
Click here to listen to Alan Hovhaness speak of his work with
Stokowski
Steve Cohen also interviewed Houston musicians Billy Welch, viola,
and Ralph Leese, trombone (I have not been able to verify spelling
of these names) regarding Stokowski's conducting and his departure from
Houston in 1960.
Click here to hear about Stokowski's work and departure from the Houston
Symphony
Leopold Stokowski on Arturo Toscanini
In an interview recorded in about
1960, Stokowski made indirect references to his opinion of the
conducting methods of Arturo Toscanini
Click here to listen to Stokowski speak
about Toscanini methods.
Stokowski on his Asia Travels
In this interview, Stokowski speaks of his travels in
Asia, in which he says he always traveled alone.
Apparently Evangeline Johnson Stokowski, his wife at the time of
his one year travel in Asia 1927-1928 is perhaps forgotten, or at least
omitted.
Click here to listen to Stokowski speak about his Asia travels
Orchestra Musicians and Performers Speak of Stokowski
Although the opinions of orchestra
musicians was mixed as to Stokowski's decisions as to music, all
of them seem to show a professional respect for his abilities.
There is none of the tone of the "charlatan" criticism leveled
by a few critics. Since orchestra musicians, particularly
the virtuoso leaders interviewed here are a critical lot, this
respect is notable.
Click here to listen to Mischa Mischakoff,
Concertmaster of the Philadelphia Orchestra and the NBC Symphony on Stokowski
Click here to listen to Manual Zegler, NY
Philharmonic solo bassoon on Stokowski
Click here to listen to Jennie Tourel
speak of Stokowski and Alexander Nevsky music
Click here to listen to Basil Rathbone
speak of Stokowski and Peter and the Wolf
Note that Basil Rathbone died a few
months after this 1967 telephone interview.
Click here to listen to James Chambers NY
Philharmonic horn on why the All American Youth Orchestra broke
up in 1942
Other Stokowski Interviews
Stokowski in
Cincinnati (1909-1912)
In this interview, Stokowski speaks about his years
with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra and his later change to
the Philadelphia Orchestra. This interview is by Gordon
Stafford from March, 1956.
Click here to listen to Stokowski speak of
his experience with the Cincinnati Symphony 1909-1912
Stokowski On Conducting
In December, 1969, Stokowski was
interviewed by WGBH radio, Boston Public Radio on 'Creative
Method: Leopold Stokowski on Conducting'. The interview, by
Dr. Lyman Bryson, is somewhat superficial, and Dr. Bryson seems
to lack insight into music-making of the symphony orchestra, or
so it seems to me. His questions are therefore not always
appropriate to gain a fruitful response from Stokowski.
Notice that in this interview, Stokowski seems to have toned
down the "Stokowski accent", and to have abandoned the
mannerisms of a non-English speaking person searching for the
correct word in the foreign language of English.
The interview is somewhat
interesting, and is presented in three parts of about 10 minutes
each because of the file size.
Click here to listen to Part 1 of
"Stokowski on Conducting"
Click here to listen to Part 2 of
"Stokowski on Conducting"
Click here to listen to Part 3 of 'Stokowski on Conducting'
Stokowski Rehearsals
A number of Stokowski's rehearsals have been recording,
demonstrating his efficiency in gaining what he
wanted from musicians.
One interesting Philadelphia rehearsal was recorded by a somewhat
crude hand-held recording in July, 1965, and broadcast on the
Philadelphia station WHYY-FM at that time. It is a piano
rehearsal (without the Philadelphia Orchestra) with the
Philadelphia Oratorio Choir of Prokofiev's cantata arranged
from the 1938 film music for Alexander Nevsky.
Click here to listen to (download) the 1965 Stokowski rehearsal
of Alexander Nevsky
Stokowski Innovations in Orchestral Seating
Until the end of the 1920s, we can
see from Orchestra photographs that Stokowski's orchestral
seating was the same as the traditional seating used by, for
example, Toscanini. Then, beginning in the second half of
the 1930s with the
Philadelphia Orchestra, and continuing with many orchestras for
the rest of his career, Stokowski experimented with reseating
the orchestra to gain better sound. The picture
below shows the changed orchestral seating of the Philadelphia
Orchestra under Stokowski in 1939. This 1939
experiment he did not retain long, with the woodwinds in the
first two full semicircular front rows, brass against the wall to Stokowski's left, the horns and
percussion to Stokowski's right. The double basses were
along the back wall, with the violins and violas in front of
them.
The one feature of this arrangement which he retained in future
years was the string bass section along the back wall.
Philadelphia, 1939
With his All American Youth
Orchestra of 1940, Stokowski again had the basses against the
back wall, with the celli in front of them. Also, the
horns were to Stokowski's right with the percussion behind the
horns. And again, the brass was against the wall to Stokowski's
left, and the woodwinds were in a semi-circle in the first row
in front of Stokowski, just as in 1939. However, the
violins were now in the more traditional position to Stokowski's
left, although in the second row, behind the woodwinds.
Although Stokowski reseated the NBC
Symphony Orchestra in 1943, perhaps he did not systematically
reseat all the orchestras he conducted. In 1947, following
Artur Rodzinski's abrupt departure from the New York
Philharmonic, Stokowski was one of the conductors considered as
Music Director. As can be seen in the 1947 rehearsal
photograph below, the New York Philharmonic seems to be in the
conventional seating, with first and second violins to
Stokowski's left, and the percussion in the back. Other
pictures from this rehearsal and of the concert in Carnegie Hall show the celli to Stokowski's
right, and the basses to Stokowski's right in the back, in the traditional placement. On the
other hand, Stokowski during this period was being particularly
careful with the orchestra, and the Board of Directors of the
New York Philharmonic, seeming to avoid things that could be
considered controversial or eccentric, so perhaps seating was
also given the same treatment. Take a look at this 1947
New York Philharmonic rehearsal.
New York, 1947
By 1957, with the Houston Symphony
Orchestra, as can be seen in the photograph below, Stokowski's
seating had further evolved to a configuration which he seems to
have used, but in various variations, for the next twenty years.
Again, string basses were against the back wall on very high
risers nearly 2 meters high, with the celli directly in front,
also on high risers of perhaps 1 meter in height. First
and second violins were seated on the stage floor to Stokowski's
left, the traditional position. Violas were to Stokowski's
immediate right, with the horns sitting behind the violas,
center right. Woodwinds were to Stokowski's right, behind
the violas, and the percussion were against the right wall,
behind the woodwinds.
Houston, 1957
As Stokowski states in the
interview here, he was seeking, in part, better sound projection. It is clear from
what he did that this reseating was not an eccentric whim, but a
well thought-out approach, with regular experimentation, to
achieve a better orchestra sound.
Stokowski also altered his approach to seating according to the
characteristics of the hall, and even according the the sound
characteristics of individual musicians.
This interview is with Klaus George Roy, program
annotator of the Cleveland Orchestra, and long-term friend of
George Szell. This interview is
from the intermission of a broadcast of Stokowski's last
performance with the Cleveland Orchestra on May 13, 1971.
Click here to list to Stokowski speaking
about orchestral seating
As he expresses it, Stokowski believed that the traditional orchestral seating, with
the violins and celli in the front, the string basses in the
right rear (as seen by the audience), the woodwinds in the
center back,
and perhaps left back, the percussion against the back wall did
not necessarily provide the best transmission of the sound of
each different instrument.
He experimented with a number of different layouts over the
years, and also
varied such layouts according to the physical and acoustic
layout of the hall in which the orchestra was performing.
I heard
the results of this reseating with different orchestras in
Philadelphia, Chicago and New York, I can say the result was
favorable as to clarity and sound. The differences were
subtle, at least acoustically, but favorable. In stereo
recordings, the sound difference I find to be less marked, since
the multiple microphone placement and audio mixing of the more
sophisticated stereophonic recording technology would bring out various instruments
in ways determined more by microphone placement than by seating
(but then Stokowski insisted to determine microphone placement
also). In concert, however, I
found the sound difference to be subtle, but effective.
Visually, however, as can be seen in the photograph
of the Philadelphia Orchestra in 1939, the result is striking to
anyone used to the traditional seating of the symphony
orchestra. For this reason, some traditionalists resented
Stokowski's efforts as being mere showmanship. It is said
that Toscanini in particular resented the reseating of the NBC
Symphony Orchestra. Time Magazine of said "...The minute
Stokowski took over at NBC he began making changes in the
broadcasting technique of Toscanini's orchestra. He altered the
traditional seating arrangement. He insisted that the stringed
instrumentalists bow out of step, to produce the lush, powerful
Stokowski tone..." 3.
However, these seatings, even for the same
orchestra in the same hall would change from time to time as
Stokowski sought the optimal result. For example, with the
American Symphony Orchestra in New York, I never saw a seating
such as this 1939 photograph. In Philadelphia, Chicago and
New York in the 1960s, percussion was not in the front in the
concerts I saw, but rather in the right back. Also, the
brass was not in the front, but either to the right, further
back, or in the center toward the rear. Horns and
woodwinds were in front of the brass. Violas might be in
front of the horns, to Stokowski's right. The string
basses would either be along the back wall, so as to project
their sound, or along the left wall, front to back, so that the
natural sound projection of the instruments would be toward the
audience.
This reflection
of the string bass sound from the back wall or the left side
wall of the orchestra
shell in many halls seems to have helped achieve the bass sonority
that was such an impressive feature of the Stokowski sound, both
in performance and in recordings.
For example, in
Symphony Hall Chicago, Stokowski would seat celli on his left,
near the left wall, with first and second violins in front of
the celli. Woodwinds and brass were on his right, with
violas in front of them. Percussion was to the
center-right toward the back. The basses were along the
back (although the stage of Symphony Hall Chicago does not have
a tall back wall such as with an orchestra shell, but rather a
wall of perhaps 15 meters height, up to a small balcony of
seats, with the organ pipes then behind these seats).
It seems that in later years and with most orchestras, this
configuration I described for Chicago was
Stokowski's preferred configuration, with the principal
variation being whether the basses were along the back, or
placed along the left wall, front of the stage to back of the
stage. Also, the woodwind placement seemed to vary.
Carnegie Hall
in New York, venue for the American Symphony Orchestra concerts
has a beautiful curving orchestra shell, with a full-height back
wall, slightly curving into the left and right side walls.
In this case, Stokowski placed the string bases along the back
wall earlier in the 1960s, and then along the left side in the
later 1960s.
In addition to
variations in the horizontal seating location of the musicians
on the stage, Stokowski would also sometimes move them
vertically. As can be heard in this Stokowski interview,
some halls such as Severance Hall, Cleveland had greater
flexibility of risers and Stokowski would change the instruments
also vertically. He would place the basses on risers at
the back or at the side, to allow better sound projection, with
the celli perhaps also on risers in front of the basses, again
at Stokowski's left.
It is
interesting that in the 1988 reconstruction of Symphony Hall
Chicago, the stage was redesigned with a series of five, and in
the back right, six different seating levels, facilitating the
sound projection of the instruments. Symphony Hall Chicago
did have risers for the Orchestra previously, but of a more
modest scale of perhaps three levels.
3
Maestro's Furioso Time Magazine. June
19, 1944
Note on listening to the Stokowski recordings:
The recordings in this site are files in mp3 format (128 mbps)
encoded from my recordings. Links to the mp3 files are located in two places:
First - in the page covering the year of the recording.
For example, links to a 1926 recording are found in the page:
1926 - Stokowski - Philadelphia Orchestra Recordings
Second - in the Chronological Discography page.
For example, links to a 1926 recording are also found in the
electrical recordings chronological discography page:
Chronological Discography of Electrical Recordings
This page lists all the electrical recordings from 1925 to
1940 made by the Philadelphia Orchestra conducted by Leopold
Stokowski and issued by Victor, including of course the 1926 recordings.
The mp3 files in this site are encoded at 128 mbps. This means that the
files are of different sizes, according to the length of
the music. For example, the second electrical recording, the
April 29, 1925 Borodin ‘Polovetzki Dances’ is small (3.6MB). In contrast,
the 1929 Le Sacre du Printemps file is large. Le Sacre part 1 is 14MB
and Le Sacre part 2 is 16MB.
This means that a large file will take a longer time to
download, depending on your internet connection speed.
Please keep this in mind when you click to listen to -
download a particularly music file. You may click
the link to the music file, but need to wait a number of
seconds or even minutes to listen to the file.
L'Héritage de Stokowski - Accueil
français
Victor Talking Machine
Company, Eldridge Johnson, et le développement
de la technologie d'enregistrement acoustique
1917 - 1924 les
enregistrements acoustique Victor de Leopold
Stokowski et l'Orchestre de Philadelphie
1917 - Premiers
enregistrements acoustique de Stokowski -
Orchestre de Philadelphie
1917 - 1919 autres
enregistrements acoustique Stokowski - Orchestre
de Philadelphie
1920 - 1921 autres
enregistrements acoustique Stokowski - Orchestre
de Philadelphie
1922 - 1924 autres
enregistrements acoustique Stokowski - Orchestre
de Philadelphie
1919 - 1924
enregistrements acoustique Russe Stokowski -
Orchestre de Philadelphie
1920 - 1924
enregistrements acoustique français - Stokowski
- Orchestre de Philadelphie
1921 -1924 enregistrements
acoustique Tchaïkovski - Stokowski - Orchestre
de Philadelphie
1921 - 1924
enregistrements acoustique Wagner - Stokowski -
Orchestre de Philadelphie
1924 enregistrements
acoustique Rachmaninov - Stokowski - Orchestre
de Philadelphie
Développement de
l'enregistrement électrique
Permis d'exploitation du
système Westrex donné à Victor et Columbia
1925 Premier
enregistrement électrique Stokowski - Orchestre
de Philadelphie
1925 autres
enregistrements électriques Stokowski -
Orchestre de Philadelphie
1926 enregistrements
électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de
Philadelphie
1927 enregistrements
électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de
Philadelphie
Plus des
enregistrements1927 électriques Stokowski -
Orchestre de Philadelphie
1928 enregistrements
électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de
Philadelphie
1929 enregistrements
électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de
Philadelphie
1930 enregistrements
électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de
Philadelphie
D'autres documents sur
Stokowski et l'Orchestre de Philadelphie
Studio d'Eglise Camden -
Victor Talking Machine studio d'enregistrement
Leopold Stokowski -
Orchestre de Philadelphie Enregistrement à
l'Académie de musique de Philadelphie
Biographie - Leopold
Stokowski
Interviews avec Leopold
Stokowski
Leopold Stokowski
Orchestrations
Leopold Stokowski et
Harvey Fletcher et les laboratoires Bell
expérimental enregistrements
Maîtres de restauration
moderne de disques historique
CDs de Stokowski et
l'Orchestre de Philadelphie
Leopold Stokowski
Discographie chronologique
Les Musiciens de
l'Orchestre de Philadelphie - Commentaire
Biographique
Leopold Stokowski -
Orchestre de Philadelphie bibl iographie, des
sources et crédits
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