Interviews with Leopold Stokowski


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Interviews with Leopold Stokowski

 

 

Leopold Stokowski

in 1960s back at the organ

 

Interviews with Leopold Stokowski

 

Leopold Stokowski participated in numerous interviews, often as part of radio programs, and also occasionally speeches, of which a variety of recordings survive.  In some ways, these interviews have characteristics in common with Stokowski's many recordings of great music.  He seems consistently to have sought a particular effect or impression by what he communicated to the listener.  In this, they seem characteristic of the man, including that they may not be totally reliable factual accounts of real events, in those cases that he is speaking of real events.


Not only are the "facts" in Stokowski's accounts often changed, seemingly for effect, but also his opinions and pronouncement seem (to me at least) often to verge on the cliché, and without great depth.  Further, in speaking of the great composers and artists he knew, he often had somewhat uniform descriptions of them, for example, as all being "simple" in their personal conduct and outlook, and in having modest habits.  This was seemingly praise from Stokowski, but describing Richard Strauss, for example as a "simple" man or Prokofiev as "simple like a child" would seem to stretch the concept, at least contrasted with other accounts of these two great composers. 


Much different music was characterized in the same way, for example, Brahms' Symphony no 1 has "...a simple, childlike beauty".  

 

The Stokowski Accent

 

Also, somewhat irritating to some listeners will be not only the famous Stokowski accent, but also his affectation of being a non-English speaking European searching for the correct English word in a foreign language.  You will hear examples in these interviews.  So too, he would start to use a foreign term, seemingly by accident, and seem to catch himself and correct it to English (e.g. "...in Deutsch..; ahh in Germany...").  In contrast, speaking of his personal investigations of Asian music, he went "...on the place; ahh 'sur place'...".


Similarly, he had the habit of referring to international cities by their foreign names ("Moskva" rather than Moscow, "Praha" instead of Prague), with some surprising exceptions (such as "Vienna" rather than Wein, or "Paris" in an English pronunciation, rather than "Par-ee" in a French pronunciation. pronunciation). 

 

Also, he often used adaptations of non-English language terms, such as "Fagottist" in place of bassoon and addressing the bassoonist as "Fagott" (the German term or "fagotto" in Italian, or possibly "fagotte", the French term for bassoon) in instructing the orchestra.  Speaking of "orchestra", Stokowski usually pronounced orchestra as "or-KES-tra", with the accent on the second syllable for at least 60 years. However, there are some interesting exceptions. In Stokowski's 1927 analysis of the Brahms Symphony no 1, included as one 78 RPM side in Victor album M-15, Stokowski says "OR-kes-tra", with the accent on the first syllable, as do most English speakers. 

 

Also, when speaking, Stokowski would frequently drop articles such as "the" or "a", particularly in public speaking.  And, this method of speaking seems, from contemporary accounts, to have evolved principally between his time in Cincinnati and his arrival in Philadelphia. 

 

Given that he was born and raised in England in an English speaking household and lived substantially all of his long life in either England or the United States (Stokowski became a naturalized US citizen in 1914),  this affectation is striking.  Perhaps more so now that we look back at Stokowski's remarkable life, knowing much that had been obscured, often by Stokowski himself, during his lifetime.

 

Did Stokowski Speak Polish?

 

In case there is any doubt that Stokowski grew up in a totally English speaking household, prior to entering the Royal College of Music in London in January, 1898, a definitive account is given in Oliver Daniel's superb book Stokowski, A Counterpoint of View (see the Leopold Stokowski Philadelphia Orchestra Bibliography, Sources and Credits)

 

"...In October, 1977, a year before his own death, he [Percy, Leopold's younger brother] wrote me:

 

First about our parents.  My father's father was a Pole.... He later married a Scotch woman named Anderson.  So that my father was half Scotch.  There was no Polish spoken in our home and I do not think my father knew any Polish..."  [Page 6, op. cit.]

 

Oliver Daniel, who knew Stokowski well over many years, speculated that, rather than being a false affectation, Stokowski's evolving speaking habits were part of Stokowski's continuous search for the new, and the striking.  Daniel says [page 118, op. cit.] '...To me it was simply pure Stokowski.  I feel that he was playing a role.  For Philadelphia, the scenario had to be rewritten - it had to accentuate the Slav in him.' 


Mystery and Novelty

 

I share this less censorious view of Stokowski in his speech and his recounting of his history.  This seems consistent with Stokowski's desire to be both private,  mysterious, and striking.  As an example, in the 1930 US Census, Stokowski claimed to have been born in France, and that his age was 39 (actually 48).  However, all this mystery and recreation of his identity would seem (to me) perhaps part of a constant search for the new and novel.  However, unfortunately, these recreations seem also to have aided those who, then and now, unfairly tried to characterize Stokowski as a 'charlatan'.

Should we seek to judge this quest for mystery and novelty ?  Is it not better to concentrate on the music and the musical performances, the joy, and the insight he has given us through his sixty years of recording ?  What is the importance of his constant re-creation of himself and his history ?  The music is the important part.

However, this also brings me to the conclusion that the Stokowski interviews are not a particularly good way to appreciate the achievements of the man, nor to gain any particular insight into his career and achievements.

So, sample these interviews 'at your own risk'.  They come from my personal collection in some cases, and from publicly available sources in others.

 

1972 BBC Stokowski Fiftieth Anniversary Tribute

 

In 1972, the BBC made a broadcast billed as a tribute to the fiftieth anniversary of Stokowski's first London Symphony Orchestra concert of 1912.  The tribute is a compilation of Stokowski interviews highlighting the divergences of Stokowski statements made during interviews, versus the information from various sources.  It makes use of the discrepancies about his age and origin. The interview excerpts is contrasted from amusing musical excerpts from Fantasia (or, as Stokowski says during one of the interviews, 'fan-ta-SI-a').  When talking about this he speaks about the 'kino haus', using the German term, then correcting it to the 'cinema house', again as a non-English speaker.  This tribute is in fact something of a "send-up" of Stokowski by the BBC, with somewhat arch, indirect irony.  Interesting, but somewhat 'naughty'.

 

Click here to listen to the 1972 BBC Stokowski Fiftieth Anniversary Tribute

 

Interviews with Steve Cohen WUHY Philadelphia

In 1968 in Philadelphia, Steve Cohen produced a series of programs about Leopold Stokowski, called 'The Stokowski Story', which were broadcast on radio station WHYY-FM.  Steve Cohen interviewed not only Leopold Stokowski, but also a number of members of the the Philadelphia Orchestra, the Houston Symphony, and other Orchestras and musicians.  The Philadelphia Orchestra musicians went back as far as 1919 in their memories.  There were interviews also with acquaintances who knew Stokowski from his earliest days in Philadelphia, and also in New York.


The first excerpts from the Steve Cohen 'Stokowski Story' reproduce interviews with Stokowski recorded in New York City, probably in 1967.


Stokowski provides a series of recollections of great composers whom he had worked with or had met.  First of these was Serge Rachmaninoff with whom Stokowski made famous recordings of the Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto no 2, and the Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini.  Click below to listen to Stokowski's memories of Serge Rachmaninoff.


Click here to listen to Stokowski's memories of Serge Rachmaninoff

 

Richard Strauss who conducted the Philadelphia Orchestra in 1921.

 

Click here to hear Stokowski's memories of Richard Strauss

 

Stravinsky according to Stokowski.

 

Click here to hear about Stravinsky according to Stokowski

 

Sibelius according to Stokowski

 

Click here to hear Stokowski speaking about Sibelius

 

Edgar Varèse according to Stokowski

 

Click here to listen to Stokowski speak about Edgar Varèse

 

Steve Cohen also had a series of interviews with composers and musicians about Stokowski performances.

 

In about 1966, Steve Cohen interviewed the great Armenian-American composer Alan Hovhaness (1911-2000) about Stokowski's premiers of several Hovhaness works, including 'Mysterious Mountain' in Houston in 1955.

 

Click here to listen to Alan Hovhaness speak of his work with Stokowski

 

Steve Cohen also interviewed Houston musicians Billy Welch, viola, and Ralph Leese, trombone (I have not been able to verify spelling of these names) regarding Stokowski's conducting and his departure from Houston in 1960.

 

Click here to hear about Stokowski's work and departure from the Houston Symphony

 

Leopold Stokowski on Arturo Toscanini

 

In an interview recorded in about 1960, Stokowski made indirect references to his opinion of the conducting methods of Arturo Toscanini

 

Click here to listen to Stokowski speak about Toscanini methods.

 

Stokowski on his Asia Travels

 

In this interview, Stokowski speaks of his travels in Asia, in which he says he always traveled alone.  Apparently Evangeline Johnson Stokowski, his wife at the time of his one year travel in Asia 1927-1928 is perhaps forgotten, or at least omitted.

 

Click here to listen to Stokowski speak about his Asia travels

 

Orchestra Musicians and Performers Speak of Stokowski

 

Although the opinions of orchestra musicians was mixed as to Stokowski's decisions as to music, all of them seem to show a professional respect for his abilities.  There is none of the tone of the "charlatan" criticism leveled by a few critics.  Since orchestra musicians, particularly the virtuoso leaders interviewed here are a critical lot, this respect is notable.

 

Click here to listen to Mischa Mischakoff, Concertmaster of the Philadelphia Orchestra and the NBC Symphony on Stokowski

 

Click here to listen to Manual Zegler, NY Philharmonic solo bassoon on Stokowski

 

Click here to listen to Jennie Tourel speak of Stokowski and Alexander Nevsky music

 

Click here to listen to Basil Rathbone speak of Stokowski and Peter and the Wolf

 

Note that Basil Rathbone died a few months after this 1967 telephone interview.

 

Click here to listen to James Chambers NY Philharmonic horn on why the All American Youth Orchestra broke up in 1942

 

Other Stokowski Interviews

 

Stokowski in Cincinnati (1909-1912)


In this interview, Stokowski speaks about his years with the Cincinnati Symphony Orchestra and his later change to the Philadelphia Orchestra.  This interview is by Gordon Stafford from March, 1956.

 

Click here to listen to Stokowski speak of his experience with the Cincinnati Symphony 1909-1912

 

Stokowski On Conducting


In December, 1969, Stokowski was interviewed by WGBH radio, Boston Public Radio on 'Creative Method: Leopold Stokowski on Conducting'.  The interview, by Dr. Lyman Bryson, is somewhat superficial, and Dr. Bryson seems to lack insight into music-making of the symphony orchestra, or so it seems to me.  His questions are therefore not always appropriate to gain a fruitful response from Stokowski.  Notice that in this interview, Stokowski seems to have toned down the "Stokowski accent", and to have abandoned the mannerisms of a non-English speaking person searching for the correct word in the foreign language of English.

 

The interview is somewhat interesting, and is presented in three parts of about 10 minutes each because of the file size.

 

Click here to listen to Part 1 of "Stokowski on Conducting"

 

Click here to listen to Part 2 of "Stokowski on Conducting"

 

Click here to listen to Part 3 of 'Stokowski on Conducting'

 

Stokowski Rehearsals

 

A number of Stokowski's rehearsals have been recording, demonstrating his efficiency in gaining what he wanted from musicians.

 

One interesting Philadelphia rehearsal was recorded by a somewhat crude hand-held recording in July, 1965, and broadcast on the Philadelphia station WHYY-FM at that time.  It is a piano rehearsal (without the Philadelphia Orchestra) with the Philadelphia Oratorio Choir of Prokofiev's cantata arranged from the 1938 film music for Alexander Nevsky.

 

Click here to listen to (download) the 1965 Stokowski rehearsal of Alexander Nevsky

 

 

Stokowski Innovations in Orchestral Seating

 

Until the end of the 1920s, we can see from Orchestra photographs that Stokowski's orchestral seating was the same as the traditional seating used by, for example, Toscanini.  Then, beginning in the second half of the 1930s with the Philadelphia Orchestra, and continuing with many orchestras for the rest of his career, Stokowski experimented with reseating the orchestra to gain better sound.   The picture below shows the changed orchestral seating of the Philadelphia Orchestra under Stokowski in 1939.   This 1939 experiment he did not retain long, with the woodwinds in the first two full semicircular front rows, brass against the wall to Stokowski's left, the horns and percussion to Stokowski's right.  The double basses were along the back wall, with the violins and violas in front of them.  The one feature of this arrangement which he retained in future years was the string bass section along the back wall.

   Philadelphia, 1939

 

With his All American Youth Orchestra of 1940, Stokowski again had the basses against the back wall, with the celli in front of them.  Also, the horns were to Stokowski's right with the percussion behind the horns. And again, the brass was against the wall to Stokowski's left, and the woodwinds were in a semi-circle in the first row in front of Stokowski, just as in 1939.  However, the violins were now in the more traditional position to Stokowski's left, although in the second row, behind the woodwinds.

 

Although Stokowski reseated the NBC Symphony Orchestra in 1943, perhaps he did not systematically reseat all the orchestras he conducted.  In 1947, following Artur Rodzinski's abrupt departure from the New York Philharmonic, Stokowski was one of the conductors considered as Music Director.  As can be seen in the 1947 rehearsal photograph below, the New York Philharmonic seems to be in the conventional seating, with first and second violins to Stokowski's left, and the percussion in the back.  Other pictures from this rehearsal and of the concert in Carnegie Hall show the celli to Stokowski's right, and the basses to Stokowski's right in the back, in the traditional placement.  On the other hand, Stokowski during this period was being particularly careful with the orchestra, and the Board of Directors of the New York Philharmonic, seeming to avoid things that could be considered controversial or eccentric, so perhaps seating was also given the same treatment.  Take a look at this 1947 New York Philharmonic rehearsal.

   New York, 1947

 

By 1957, with the Houston Symphony Orchestra, as can be seen in the photograph below, Stokowski's seating had further evolved to a configuration which he seems to have used, but in various variations, for the next twenty years.  Again, string basses were against the back wall on very high risers nearly 2 meters high, with the celli directly in front, also on high risers of perhaps 1 meter in height.  First and second violins were seated on the stage floor to Stokowski's left, the traditional position.  Violas were to Stokowski's immediate right, with the horns sitting behind the violas, center right.  Woodwinds were to Stokowski's right, behind the violas, and the percussion were against the right wall, behind the woodwinds.

   Houston, 1957

 

As Stokowski states in the interview here, he was seeking, in part, better sound projection.  It is clear from what he did that this reseating was not an eccentric whim, but a well thought-out approach, with regular experimentation, to achieve a better orchestra sound.  Stokowski also altered his approach to seating according to the characteristics of the hall, and even according the the sound characteristics of individual musicians.

 

This interview is with Klaus George Roy, program annotator of the Cleveland Orchestra, and long-term friend of George Szell.  This interview is from the intermission of a broadcast of Stokowski's last performance with the Cleveland Orchestra on May 13, 1971.

 

Click here to list to Stokowski speaking about orchestral seating

 

As he expresses it, Stokowski believed that the traditional orchestral seating, with the violins and celli in the front, the string basses in the right rear (as seen by the audience), the woodwinds in the center back, and perhaps left back, the percussion against the back wall did not necessarily provide the best transmission of the sound of each different instrument.  He experimented with a number of different layouts over the years, and also varied such layouts according to the physical and acoustic layout of the hall in which the orchestra was performing.

 

I heard the results of this reseating with different orchestras in Philadelphia, Chicago and New York, I can say the result was favorable as to clarity and sound.  The differences were subtle, at least acoustically, but favorable.  In stereo recordings, the sound difference I find to be less marked, since the multiple microphone placement and audio mixing of the more sophisticated stereophonic recording technology would bring out various instruments in ways determined more by microphone placement than by seating (but then Stokowski insisted to determine microphone placement also).  In concert, however, I found the sound difference to be subtle, but effective. 

 

Visually, however, as can be seen in the photograph of the Philadelphia Orchestra in 1939, the result is striking to anyone used to the traditional seating of the symphony orchestra.  For this reason, some traditionalists resented Stokowski's efforts as being mere showmanship.  It is said that Toscanini in particular resented the reseating of the NBC Symphony Orchestra.  Time Magazine of said "...The minute Stokowski took over at NBC he began making changes in the broadcasting technique of Toscanini's orchestra. He altered the traditional seating arrangement. He insisted that the stringed instrumentalists bow out of step, to produce the lush, powerful Stokowski tone..." 3.

 

However, these seatings, even for the same orchestra in the same hall would change from time to time as Stokowski sought the optimal result.  For example, with the American Symphony Orchestra in New York, I never saw a seating such as this 1939 photograph.  In Philadelphia, Chicago and New York in the 1960s, percussion was not in the front in the concerts I saw, but rather in the right back.  Also, the brass was not in the front, but either to the right, further back, or in the center toward the rear.  Horns and woodwinds were in front of the brass.  Violas might be in front of the horns, to Stokowski's right.  The string basses would either be along the back wall, so as to project their sound, or along the left wall, front to back, so that the natural sound projection of the instruments would be toward the audience.

 

This reflection of the string bass sound from the back wall or the left side wall of the orchestra shell in many halls seems to have helped achieve the bass sonority that was such an impressive feature of the Stokowski sound, both in performance and in recordings.

 

For example, in Symphony Hall Chicago, Stokowski would seat celli on his left, near the left wall, with first and second violins in front of the celli.  Woodwinds and brass were on his right, with violas in front of them.  Percussion was to the center-right toward the back.  The basses were along the back (although the stage of Symphony Hall Chicago does not have a tall back wall such as with an orchestra shell, but rather a wall of perhaps 15 meters height, up to a small balcony of seats, with the organ pipes then behind these seats).  

 

It seems that in later years and with most orchestras, this configuration I described for Chicago was Stokowski's preferred configuration, with the principal variation being whether the basses were along the back, or placed along the left wall, front of the stage to back of the stage.  Also, the woodwind placement seemed to vary.

 

Carnegie Hall in New York, venue for the American Symphony Orchestra concerts has a beautiful curving orchestra shell, with a full-height back wall, slightly curving into the left and right side walls.  In this case, Stokowski placed the string bases along the back wall earlier in the 1960s, and then along the left side in the later 1960s.

 

In addition to variations in the horizontal seating location of the musicians on the stage, Stokowski would also sometimes move them vertically.  As can be heard in this Stokowski interview, some halls such as Severance Hall, Cleveland had greater flexibility of risers and Stokowski would change the instruments also vertically.  He would place the basses on risers at the back or at the side, to allow better sound projection, with the celli perhaps also on risers in front of the basses, again at Stokowski's left. 

 

It is interesting that in the 1988 reconstruction of Symphony Hall Chicago, the stage was redesigned with a series of five, and in the back right, six different seating levels, facilitating the sound projection of the instruments.  Symphony Hall Chicago did have risers for the Orchestra previously, but of a more modest scale of perhaps three levels.

 

 

 


 

3   Maestro's Furioso Time Magazine.  June 19, 1944

 


 

Note on listening to the Stokowski recordings

 

The recordings in this site are files in mp3 format (128 mbps) encoded from my recordings.  Links to the mp3 files are located in two places:

 

First - in the page covering the year of the recording.  For example, links to a 1926 recording are found in the page:   1926 - Stokowski - Philadelphia Orchestra Recordings  

 

Second - in the Chronological Discography page.  For example, links to a 1926 recording are also found in the electrical recordings chronological discography page:  Chronological Discography of Electrical Recordings    This page lists all the electrical recordings from 1925 to 1940 made by the Philadelphia Orchestra conducted by Leopold Stokowski and issued by Victor, including of course the 1926 recordings.

 

The mp3 files in this site are encoded at 128 mbps.  This means that the files are of different sizes, according to the length of the music.  For example, the second electrical recording, the April 29, 1925 Borodin ‘Polovetzki Dances’ is small (3.6MB).  In contrast, the 1929 Le Sacre du Printemps file is large.  Le Sacre part 1 is 14MB and Le Sacre part 2 is 16MB.

 

This means that a large file will take a longer time to download, depending on your internet connection speed.  Please keep this in mind when you click to listen to - download a particularly music file.  You may click the link to the music file, but need to wait a number of seconds or even minutes to listen to the file.

 

 


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L'Héritage de Stokowski - Accueil français

Victor Talking Machine Company, Eldridge Johnson, et le développement de la technologie d'enregistrement acoustique

1917 - 1924 les enregistrements acoustique Victor de Leopold Stokowski et l'Orchestre de Philadelphie

1917 -  Premiers enregistrements acoustique de Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1917 - 1919 autres enregistrements acoustique Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1920 - 1921 autres enregistrements acoustique Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1922 - 1924 autres enregistrements acoustique Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1919 - 1924 enregistrements acoustique Russe Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1920 - 1924 enregistrements acoustique français - Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1921 -1924 enregistrements acoustique Tchaïkovski - Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1921 - 1924 enregistrements acoustique Wagner - Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1924 enregistrements acoustique Rachmaninov - Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

 

Développement de l'enregistrement électrique

Permis d'exploitation du système Westrex donné à Victor et Columbia

1925 Premier enregistrement électrique Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1925 autres enregistrements électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1926 enregistrements électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1927 enregistrements électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

Plus des enregistrements1927 électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1928 enregistrements électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1929 enregistrements électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

1930 enregistrements électriques Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie

 

D'autres documents sur Stokowski et l'Orchestre de Philadelphie

Studio d'Eglise Camden - Victor Talking Machine studio d'enregistrement

Leopold Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie Enregistrement à l'Académie de musique de Philadelphie

Biographie - Leopold Stokowski

Interviews avec Leopold Stokowski

Leopold Stokowski Orchestrations

Leopold Stokowski et Harvey Fletcher et les laboratoires Bell expérimental enregistrements

Maîtres de restauration moderne de disques historique

CDs de Stokowski et l'Orchestre de Philadelphie

Leopold Stokowski Discographie chronologique

Les Musiciens de l'Orchestre de Philadelphie - Commentaire Biographique

Leopold Stokowski - Orchestre de Philadelphie bibliographie, des sources et crédits

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

Stokowski, Leopold, 1882-1977,. Interview conducted by WBAI, 1959.
Call#: Ms. Coll. 382



 

tagged fantasia stokowski by dkelly ...on 16-APR-06

Stokowski, Leopold, 1882-1977.. Interview conducted by David Frost, 1971 [sound recording].
Call#: Ms. Coll. 382



 

tagged fantasia stokowski by dkelly ...on 16-APR-06

Stokowski, Leopold, 1882-1977,. Interview conducted by Sue MacGregor, June 10, 1970 [sound recording].
Call#: Ms. Coll. 382